 | kev097 Okay, this conversation is getting too deep for twitter.
|
|
|
greglinch Darn, we should have thought of a hashtag for this discussion so I we could aggregate the tweets. Oh well, copy-paste it is.
|
|
|
polarscribe @jiconoclast I wonder if that's why there's no stigma attached to community college journalism, as there often is to "junior college" stuff
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @jiconoclast Before it was InDesign, it was paste-up and darkroom courses.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @jiconoclast Hasn't that always been true, though?
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber Ben Bradlee ... congratulations on your latest children's book, 'Grandpa, What Was Print Media?'"http://is.gd/8DiJ
|
|
|
kathysena @jeffcutler Yep, Greg is one of the very first people I followed here, and I've always been impressed with his thinking.
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber @jiconoclast I taught myself InDesign when it 1st came out - was layout ed of my HS paper at time. Use it for my resume now
|
|
|
jssilfies @jiconoclast InDesign and Dreamweaver are integral parts of my design class. Required for news/editorial j-students at Temple. Shameful.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @kev097 "Everyone" is a bit of a stretch. Only 27% of the 25-and-up population has a college degree.
|
|
|
jeffcutler @kathysena Greg's a name to watch. Met him at @spj08 and I'd be surprised if you don't see his name nationally in 3-5 years. Smart guy.
|
|
|
jiconoclast @danielbachhuber - To be fair, I graduated in 2006 and I had to take a course that was mostly about Quark. Not appropriate.
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber I don't think it's tech or modern day that have diluted higher ed. It's everyone going, regardless of interest or need.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @jiconoclast Yup, I've still got the InDesign assignment but they dropped the final Soundslides assignment for #uoj204. Classy, huh?
|
|
|
|
greglinch @jiconoclast @kev097 @danielbachhuber Nah, I don't think we'd have much to say on that topic :P
|
|
|
|
kev097 @jiconoclast That's a good idea. With @agahran, @macloo and others too. Rethinking j-education ripe for good, long conversation.
|
|
|
jiconoclast @danielbachhuber - Ahahaha... They have you learning InDesign at a University? Simply epic. J-school == glorified trade school.
|
|
|
|
jssilfies @danielbachhuber Once the connections are made, I might get more learning done outside of class. It's a building block.
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber For me, I've taken all the classes I needed/wanted in my "print" major and now I've moved onto the visual journo program.
|
|
|
|
jssilfies @greglinch @danielbachhuber Classes let me meet people to interact with — a place where I meet/Innovate people with similar ideas (I hope). ...
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @jiconoclast I'd be down, but I've got to finish my #uoj204 InDesign project first. My future == newspaper designer. Oh wait.
|
|
|
gmarkham @danielbachhuber can't argue on cost, but you learn storytelling, thinking, etc. by doing and direction and feedback (peer or otherwise)
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber @kev097 I agree - universities are becoming less relevant when it comes to journalism. But isn't that bc they're so behind?
|
| jiconoclast @kev097 @danielbachhuber - Maybe we need to get a blog carnival going about the topic of journalism education and education in general.
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber You DO become a better thinker in GOOD classes. Unfortunately those are too rare these days. Too many degree factories.
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber Practical experience is key, especially with journalism. Classrooms offer a certain structure and level of feedback though.
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @greglinch @kev097 I don't disagree. My argument is that, less and less, those interactions need to be in a $20,000/year university.
|
| greglinch @danielbachhuber It can be a classroom, coffee shop, tweetup, etc. My point is that human interaction is an important element.
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber That argument could be made about all education. A few can teach themselves. But college supposed to be better, structured.
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @greglinch @kev097 You learn how to become a better thinker, storyteller, etc. through *action*, not class.
|
|
|
|
kathysena @jeffcutler Good point, Jeff. I just found @greglinch 's comments interesting. Education, like everything else, is morphing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @kev097 Sometimes the ideas presented in podcasts can be shallow theory but, if you listen to the right ones, they're better than lecture.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @danielbachhuber I hate classes which make you use Blackboard for discussion. It's so impersonal and indirect. Easy to talk past each other.
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @greglinch That was the expected answer. Why should that interaction have to happen in class? Why not a coffee shop?
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @danielbachhuber The ability to discuss and share your reaction with your professor and other students
|
|
|
|
jeffcutler @kathysena @greglinch Wouldn't it depend very directly on the teacher/student ratio? And the topic. 1::1 still qualifies as a class.
|
|
|
|
jiconoclast @kev097 - IMHO, j-school should be about learning how to report/edit, research, innovation, entrepreneurialism, etc but never software.
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber See my last tweet, which was to @kathysena. Specifically re: podcasts, they're good, but you can't interact w/ them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber Yeah ideas tossed around in podcasts and blogs can be shallow theory. Sometimes a buzzword echo chamber.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @greglinch The prof is a fine writer, but he's got an E-shaped scene personality fetish. "every story must have an interesting person" Why?
|
| danielbachhuber @greglinch Make your point more concretely, though. What do I miss from class when learning via podcast?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @greglinch I'm in a feature writing course, and I find it a banal waste. Why do I need to do "his" way of structuring a story? Mine works.
|
|
|
|
kev097 @greglinch @ahayron @danielbachhuber It's silly to teach software in university setting. Like sending engineers to woodworking class.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @greglinch It's really why I plan to focus on theory courses when I transfer to Idaho.
|
|
|
|
polarscribe @greglinch I've learned far more "skills" by actually working for college papers, than I have in my "skills" classes.
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber Exposure via podcasts, blogs, etc. are important components, but I don't think we should ditch the classroom entirely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ahayron @greglinch @jiconoclast and user compliant
|
|
|
|
jiconoclast @albertsun - Is ActionScript 3 really that much easier to learn than Javascript? We should never develop from the Flash timeline.
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @greglinch On top of that, I have far greater exposure to grand concepts and themes via podcasts than I could ever have in lecture.
|
| danielbachhuber @greglinch Read the article I shared with @kev097 http://bit.ly/Zrlv All we need is a better, more open certification system.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
greglinch @danielbachhuber Gooo on...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
greglinch @jiconoclast @danielbachhuber (to follow-up) ...especially because non-Flash tools are so powerful nowadays.
|
|
|
|
danielbachhuber @greglinch I would argue, however, that the classroom environment is even outdated for conceptual learning too.
|
|
|
|
greglinch Sites like Lynda.com are where people should learn skills. Classroom should look at larger concepts, theories, teach you how to think, etc.
|
|
|
|
jiconoclast @danielbachhuber - I think Flash has a place for interactive features, but that's about it. Javscript/AJAX is way better for most uses.
|
|
|
albertsun @Danielbachhuber @greglinch Flash is much much easier to learn than AJAX though and is better for graphical presentation
|
|
|
|
jiconoclast @selfmadepsyche - Totally. I hate coming across sites built completely in Flash. They usually come with "intro" movies. Ugghhh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| kev097 I started learning Flash & ActionScript with lynda.com yesterday. Great so far. Also going to try XML, js, new tricks for CSS, InDesign, etc
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kev097 @danielbachhuber @jssilfies @jiconoclast @greglinchFlash is good for interactive features, has speed & depth AJAX can't match.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
selfmadepsyche @jiconoclast There should be an entire class on when to use what web technologies. And best practices. Damn, that's it's own field of study.
|
|
|
|
selfmadepsyche @greglinch Yea, searchability better for Flash apps. But advanced building in Flash is a web dev thing, not a basic online skills thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
greglinch @selfmadepsyche @jiconoclast @danielbachhuberI'm going to put it into an HTML/CSS pg so I can add analytics. To reiterate, class assign.
|
| ||
|
|
danielbachhuber @jiconoclast @greglinch Not only not a backbone web technology, but it's not an open standard. Stick with HTML/CSS and Ajax.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jiconoclast @selfmadepsyche - Flash is not a backbone Web technology. Every site should have a (X)HTML/CSS core. Keep fighting the good fight!
|
|
|
|
greglinch @selfmadepsyche I agree, Web sites shouldn't be in all flash. I do like that Flash will now be Googeable.
|
| selfmadepsyche @greglinch Why would they teach you to make a website in Flash? Websites shouldn't be entirely Flash. 'Tis evil.
|
|
|
|
|