Image Gallery IRC meeting 11am PT - 7pm BST

Notes:






Full transcipt of the meeting:

<darthsteven> hi
<darthsteven> do we kick off in half an hour or so?
<hubertflorin> Yep
<darthsteven> cool
<darthsteven> I'll be back then then
<hubertflorin> ok
* aufumy (n=chatzill@d207-6-56-222.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #drupal-image
<aufumy> Hi
<hubertflorin> Hi Aufumy :)
<aufumy> Hey Hub
<aufumy> nice to see you
<aufumy> I am guessing darthsteven is krueger
<hubertflorin> Actually, I dunno :0
<aufumy> haha! How are you doing hub?
<hubertflorin> not sure, he doesn't look like he is on irc
<aufumy> hmm... maybe it's his bot
<hubertflorin> I'm good, I have a busy afteernoon coming, so I'm trying to wake up
<hubertflorin> how are you
<darthsteven> darthsteven is darthsteven, who recently changed his d.o username to 'Steven Jones'
<darthsteven> (sorry to disappoint)
<aufumy> hi darthsteven!
<aufumy> not at all
* stevek (n=admin@204.244.194.75) has joined #drupal-image
<hubertflorin> that's steve
<hubertflorin> ha ha
* stevek waves
<aufumy> just confused, because Krueger designed some t-shirts with a darth vader on it
<darthsteven> lol
<aufumy> hi SteveK
<darthsteven> my nick is a hang up from when I was 12 and had to pick an email address, steven is a
  common name, as is jones
<stevek> my nemisis
<stevek> hey audrey! you're at home today?
<hubertflorin> Just because of your nickname darthsteven, we should give you one of those t-shirt
<stevek> hah
<aufumy> yes, still part-time
<darthsteven> lol
<aufumy> yes, definitely
<aufumy> that would be very appropriate
<hubertflorin> So I guess we should start
<aufumy> I am enjoying the sun... not am indoors obviously
<aufumy> ok Hub
<aufumy> although there is another person yhager here
<hubertflorin> So, topic of the day, the image gallery module project I cross-posted on groupd
  drupal.org here : http://groups.drupal.org/node/11750
<aufumy> Ok, I called this meeting because I wanted to brainstorm
<aufumy> and introduce each other
<aufumy> so how about introductions, Hub, you can start :)
* alpritt (n=alpritt@92.2.90.157) has joined #drupal-image
<hubertflorin> Ok, well, my name is Hubert, from France, and working in Vancouver at Raincity Studios as
  a themer - designer
<hubertflorin> I'm not a developper :)
<hubertflorin> and on drupal.org, I'm couzinhub
* skilip (n=chatzill@cc662516-b.kampe1.ov.home.nl) has joined #drupal-image
<aufumy> I am working with Hub, my name is Audrey, I finally got off my malaise by Hub bugging me
  enough, to decide to help out on his idea for the module
<stevek> I'm Steve. I'm a production designer and developer at Raincity Studios Vancouver. I'm excited
  about a better UI and UX for images/image uploads
<hubertflorin> I'm also known as the image-gallery freak in raincity, everyone heard me beaching about
  how awfull drupal is with images
<aufumy> I am a developer, though have been doing more database work recently, am good with unix and
  other tools
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<stevek> hey michelle
* Disconnected
* Attempting to rejoin channel #drupal-image
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<hubertflorin> same, sorry for my english
<aufumy> michelle ground up
<darthsteven_> I'm Steve too, just started my own Drupal shop in the UK, been doing lots of things with
  drupal for a while and figured I should get paid! I am a developer.
<Michelle> aufumy - AKA reinventing the wheel?
<darthsteven_> My computer died today, so I'm running from an old beast of a computer :-(
<aufumy> hopefully we can discuss that today
<aufumy> come up with the best solution, that works well
<aufumy> I wanted to after introductions
<aufumy> talk about going over other modules, and figuring out if we are indeed re-inventing the wheel,
  and if not how to proceed from there
<aufumy> anybody else wanting to introduce themselves?
<darthsteven_> sounds good
<alpritt> I'm trying to remember who the big players are. I just remember walkah said he wasn't going to
  do any developing; more evangelism.
<Michelle> I'm Michelle...  I do this and that.
<Michelle> walkah & dopry for sure
<skilip> I'm a developer and a designer whose interest is usability 
<Michelle> He should at least be in on any major image discussion
<Michelle> Quicksketch maybe too... Um... Drewish
<Michelle> Trying to think who else
<aufumy> Michelle you are probably right , I have to admit, that we could probably organize this better
<aufumy> but I don't know all the major players
<Michelle> Who's the asset guy again...? wmostry?
<hubertflorin> Well, it's just a start today, hoppefully we will have other sessions
<aufumy> and I think that we should determine which way we want to go, get something more definite
<aufumy> and then the major players are likely to join
<aufumy> after that, that is my impression anyways
<hubertflorin> sounds good
* patchak (n=alexis@85-218-24-41.dclient.lsne.ch) has joined #drupal-image
<alpritt> Has everyone watched the presentation walkah gave?
<aufumy> we don't have much to approach the major players, just trying to find solutions
<patchak> hi
<Michelle> Well, will be interesting to see what you come up with but I doubt anything that doesn't
  involve imagefield/cache/api is going to get much traction
<aufumy> Michelle sounds good, let's get into it
<aufumy> sounds like you have good ideas
<aufumy> Hubs idea definitely involves imagefield/cache
* sumit_k (n=sumit@117.199.112.165) has joined #drupal-image
<Michelle> Dunno about that... Just wary of wheel inventing. Far too much of that already
<aufumy> i don;t mind to work with imagefield gallery, but I think the images are not nodes
<aufumy> as in imagefield nodes
<darthsteven_> has anyone/everyone played with the http://drupal.org/project/imagefield_gallery module?
<aufumy> yes, Hub has, I also installed it I think
<hubertflorin> oh yes
<Michelle> Yeah, I beta tested it from the start
<hubertflorin> a lot
<darthsteven_> cool
<skilip> Haven't
<Michelle> It's a nice module but meant for a different purpose than the whole image as node paradigm
<darthsteven_> yup
<stevek> right
<hubertflorin> it's a very good module, makes it easy for comunity to create galleries
* Crell (n=garfield@72.54.30.102) has joined #Drupal-image
<aufumy> some of the benefits of images as nodes is extensibility of the image, custom fields, etc
<hubertflorin> but yep, images are only fields..
<darthsteven_> I guess the first thing to tackle is _should_ images be nodes?
<aufumy> sounds good
<Michelle> Well, image as a field means you can choose a 1 image to 1 node ratio
<patchak> well IMO uploading an image before submitting the node is not good UI
<skilip> I don't think so
* katbailey (n=katbaile@d75-153-90-148.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #drupal-image
<alpritt> http://www.archive.org/details/Image_handling_in_core.for_real_this_time
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<patchak> just selecting the file and then selecting the node is easier IMO
<Crell> Images should not be nodes; they should be fields on nodes, and an "image node" is a node that
  has no other field.
<Michelle> Crell - Yeah, that's what I meant :)
<Michelle> You said it better
<hubertflorin> but how would you comment one image per gallery then ?
<patchak> Crell: well most users of my sites find that confusing... they have to 1) upload adn 2) submit
  the node
<patchak> most of them just select the file and submit the node, that gives an error
<Crell> patchak: They would any way if image=node.
<skilip> Wouldn't it be better to combine both images with other types of fileuloads?
<Crell> If files become first class objects then perhaps they can be files, but images are definitely
  not nodes.
<patchak> Crell: that's not how image module works, no
<aufumy> Crell how would you store, for example the camera that captured the image
<skilip> Agreed
<patchak> Crell: image module does 1 action as selecting the file and then submitting
<Crell> Extend imagefield to house extra metadata.
<aufumy> how the data is stored field vs node does not mean that the current drupal ui / workflow has to
  be used
<Crell> A dedicated node type is far too limiting.  We've moved away from that for everything; image
  module, event module, etc.  All replaced with CCK or in the process of being replaced.
<patchak> my point is more about the UI, that it's confusing and useless to upload on a node before
  submitting the actual node
<aufumy> yes, I am not convinced that image node (with singular imagefield) has to be non-extensible
<Crell> aufumy: An "image node" is simply a node with imagefield on it and no body.  Poof, you've just
  created an imagefield.
<Michelle> I'd like to see imagefield/cache combined with asset somehow. Asset has an awesome UI for
  handling images but it's not compatable with imagefield last I saw
<hubertflorin> I think it's good UI to have only one form for one gallery
<Crell> Same for date vs. event.
<darthsteven_> patchak, lets not worry about UI too much, we can solve that later
<darthsteven_> what about comments on each image, ala facebook?
<Michelle> Crell - I'm struggling with date vs event right now, actually. About ] [ this close to
  switching to date.
<aufumy> yes, I agree patchak, there can be ways of uploading the images, and automatically creating
  nodes, etc
<patchak> well if we can only select the image and then submot the node and "hide" the extra upload step
  then i don^t see any problem using fields and imagecache... heh
<Crell> Michelle: We gave up on event over a year ago.
<Michelle> patchak - You already can do that with imagefield
<Crell> patchak: I still don't understand what this "extra upload step" you're talking about is.
<Michelle> Crell - I think I've mostly hung on for killes. Loyalty is a hard thing. :)
<Crell> heh.
<patchak> Michelle: you mean uploading an image when pressing on the submit button for the node?
<Michelle> Crell - I don't think he realizes you dont' need to press the upload button
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<patchak> you don't ?
<Michelle> patchak - Yes. I do that all the time
<Michelle> Nope. Just choose the image and submit the node
<Crell> Hit browse, select an image, hit Submit. 
<Michelle> As long as there's only 1 image
<hubertflorin> and multi-images ?
<patchak> well why is it there? heh weird
<Michelle> It's there for multiple images
<Crell> So you can upload multiple images... what Michelle said.
<darthsteven_> getting a bit off-topic people
<patchak> anyway so the UI should be cleaned but if it works...
<Crell> Here's my position.
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<Michelle> darthsteven - What exactly is the topic? It's pretty vague
<skilip> I've created a custom module which enables users to attach images to any type of content. You
  can create roles for several types of content (node per type, terms, other forms). If you create a
  role, you can specify for which type of content you want the role to asign to. You can also configure
  the weight of the upload image field in the edit forms, as well as the display weight. In the form...
<skilip> ...yopu asigned the image upload fiel to, you can add as many images as you like.
<Crell> Between imagefield, imagecache, taxonomy, and Views, I can build most image gallery designs i
  want right now.
<patchak> Crell: i agree
* Michelle nods at Crell
<Michelle> The only thing really lacking is mass upload and reusability of images
<Crell> The only downside is that the presentation doesn't "look galleryish".
<Crell> Right.
<darthsteven_> okay, fairly much in agreement with you there
<Crell> And those relate to not having a fixed name for the imagefield field in question.
<Michelle> http://couleeregiononline.com/gallery <-- That's a view
<Crell> Michelle: Oooo...
<Michelle> Imagefield/cache/views/thickbox/cck
<Crell> So what's really missing is mass-import, which really means scripted node creation.
<darthsteven_> no
<hubertflorin> To me there is a lot of downside in image galleries in drupal. You need to be an advanced
  developper to achieve a good functionnality, and also, none of the solutions has multi-upload. An
  pretty much none of them is user friendly, it's only adapted to the admin
<Michelle> image module has a mass import... I looked at the code once and thought it wouldn't be
  terribly hard to port that to imagefield
<darthsteven_> scripted imagefielding
<skilip> You could mass-upload using flash
<Crell> darthsteven_: Yes, which means creating nodes.
<hubertflorin> but you need ftp access don't you to mass import ?
<aufumy> I have done batch imagefield (node) uploading
<darthsteven_> Crell: but you just argued against 1 image = 1 node
<Crell> aufumy: In a generic way that can be turned into a turnkey module?
<stevek> skilip: as long as it easily degrades to js or html
<aufumy> crell: it might already be ;)
<Crell> darthsteven_: I argued against using something other than imagefield to store the data.
<Michelle> Have any of you used G2? They have a nice assortment of uploading options
<skilip> Selecting multiple files, can only be done using flash
<Crell> One can create an "image node" by just attaching imagefield to a node, and then whatever else
  you want or don't want.
<Crell> That's more flexible than image.module's hard-coded approach.
<hubertflorin> michelle : don't you need a separate database for this ?
<darthsteven_> right!
<Michelle> hubertflorin - A separate db for what?
<darthsteven_> i don't think anyone wanted to go back to that mess
<hubertflorin> fot G2
<Crell> Dear god no G2.
<hubertflorin> ok
<Michelle> hubertflorin - Oh, no, you can use the same db. But my point wasn't to _use_ G2. It was to
  look at its uploading as an example
<aufumy> so we all pretty much agree with imagefield/imagecache
<darthsteven_> fine, so images stored as nodes, with a imagefield, and then a gallery node type with
  node_reference fields?
<skilip> LOL
<hubertflorin> +1
<aufumy> and that the 'imagefield node' can be extensible?
<Michelle> In fact, I continue to use G2 on my camera club site because of its mass uploading
<Crell> No to gallery node type.
<skilip> Isn't imagefield dependant from CCK?
<hubertflorin> yes
<Michelle> I upload everyhthing in directories via ftp and it creates all teh albums and subalbums. It's
  really quite nice
<Crell> That's going to be a TON of noderef fields, and you can't organize them well.
<Crell> Taxonomy is better suited to that, IMO.
<aufumy> yes, true
<darthsteven_> Crell: fair point.
<aufumy> but I thought I read a differing opinion somewhere
<Michelle> Crell - I use taxonomy to create the galleries on my site
<skilip> Then I'd prefer a standalone module. I never use CCK
<Crell> skilip: Yes it is.  CCK is virtually core at this point anyway, as is Views.
<aufumy> about an image node not having anything except for an imagefield field
<aufumy> which I don't agree with
<hubertflorin> would it be possible to have one image in two different galleries ?
<Michelle> skilip - You're pretty much alone in that
<Crell> skilip: Then you're missing out on anything interesting happening in Drupal in the past 2 years.
  :-)
<skilip> ;(
<hubertflorin> with taxonomy I mean
* darthsteven (n=steven@79-77-145-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
out))
<Michelle> hubertflorin - Yep
<Crell> Gallery = vocab would give you the organization you'd want, most likely.
<aufumy> taxonomy is not as extensible as nodes (can't believe I am hearing myself say that)
<Crell> Taxonomy is a hierarchical categorization system.
<Crell> Nodes are data entities.
<darthsteven_> Link a node to each term, if you need to
<Crell> Hm.
<aufumy> for example, it is much easier to do all kinds of things to nodes, favorite galleries, etc
<Crell> Totally wacky idea.
<darthsteven_> Views can compile list of taxononmy now, right?
<Michelle> If you need more info stored about a gallery, you could always make a gallery node type and
  tag it with the same taxonomy as the images
<Crell> What if we could link a node to a vocabulary? 
<Crell> So a gallery node doesn't directly reference images, but it references a vocabulary that in turn
  is the structure for the images?
<Michelle> Crell - I would love you for that :)
<Crell> You mean you don't love me already? :-P
<Michelle> Hehe... Aww, sure :)
<Crell> yay!
<Crell> The catch then is how we'd make that link, and then what exactly we'd DO with it.
<darthsteven_> references a whole vocab? per gallery?
<Crell> Without recreating the massive beheamoth that was Category module.
<Michelle> Node to term, not vocab... I misread
<hubertflorin> crell :ok, so if I create a gallery, it will only call the images nodes with a specific
  term ?
<darthsteven_> cool
<skilip> If the images have their ow db table, they can be attached to both terms and nodes
<Michelle> Crell - That was my reason for trying category. I wanted a node to go with each term
  automatically
<Crell> Michelle: There's another module that does that now.  I forget exactly what it's called.  NAT I
  think.
<Michelle> That would work for the gallery as well as a lot of other things
<Michelle> Crell - Yeah, it went in the wrong direction, though
<Crell> hm.
<Crell> skilip: Images are files, and files have their own table in D6.
<darthsteven_> guys and gals, can we pause for a moment, I feel like we're racing through things, can we
  get some of this into a google doc or something, so we can all keep track of what's been decided so far
<skilip> You could save an list of images for a node in an array in an image table . Just thinking up
  loud
<skilip> Good point
<Michelle> darthsteven_ - Proaably easier to just have someoe clean up the log after
<Crell> skilip: Single-purpose tools are  less useful than using generic solutions.
<Crell> The other challenge is order.
<aufumy> I thought files had always their own table?
<skilip> In my opinion it would be best to think first about the usability and workflow. The technical
  stuff is always possible
<hubertflorin> is it ? I think that first, it's multi upload
<Crell> I often want to exactly control the order of images in a gallery.  With taxonomy, that's not at
  all easy to do.
<Michelle> Crell - nodequeue
<skilip> Multi upload is possible
<Crell> Michelle: Touche.
<aufumy> skiip I agree usability is very important
<aufumy> but storing data and structuring is first
<aufumy> imo
<skilip> But that's easy.
<stevek> using which tools skilip.. pre-existing? roll a new module?
<Michelle> I think what's really needed is a glue module that will take the existing tools and put a
  pretty front end on for end users
<Crell> Architecture first, then UI.  Otherwise we end up with thousands of lines of intermediary code
  that is impossible to maintain.
<darthsteven_> couldn;t we just add the sort order as extra data to the term?
<aufumy> skilip that is no way easy, with the wrong structure, some queries become impossible
<Crell> Michelle: right.  In a way that builds heavily on taxonomy, views, imagefield, etc.
<darthsteven_> agreed
<skilip> But you can save the images in an array
<Crell> No, because SQL doesn't do arrays.
<Michelle> Crell - Yeah. Actually, such a module is on my long term list if no one beats me to it. I've
  got this thing for glue, I guess ;)
<skilip> variable_set stores arrays
<Crell> It does relationship tables, which Drupal already has several of.  Adding more is the wrong
  solution.
<Crell> It stores serialized data structures; those are opaque, and therefore useless for queries.
<aufumy> maybe more investigation is needed for what modules can be used for taxonomy/node stuff
<darthsteven_> what are our options for multiupload?
<stevek> swfupload
<hubertflorin> or java, but flash seams better so far
<stevek> degrades to js as well as html
<hubertflorin> facebook uses java for there image upload
<darthsteven_> how does flickr do it?
<hubertflorin> flash
<stevek> flash I believe
<skilip> I really don't get it. Why isn't it possible tos serialize and deserialize arrays
<darthsteven_> skilip: you can't use a WHERE clause easily with serialized data
<Crell> brb
<skilip> So it would be to slow
<aufumy> skilip say if a person is building a flickr type application, there might be thousands or
  millions of imags
<aufumy> storing all that data as an array or as objects in an array is not feasible
* chunmun (n=anshu@pragyan.org) Quit ("Leaving.")
<skilip> Ah, I think I'm gettig the point. :-[
<skilip> Sorry
<aufumy> that's ok
<darthsteven_> skilip, instead of saying to the database, get me all images uploaded before 17/09/2006,
  you'd have to go through _every single_ image looking at each one.
<Crell> back.
<darthsteven_> skilip: a bad idea.
<skilip> Fair enough!
<skilip> I'm convinced
<Crell> First question on mass upload: Do we want a mass-upload-through-UI, or a
  mass-import-from-on-server-directory (FTP)?
<aufumy> okay so, so far we like taxonomy for gallery because it has hierarchy, whereas we like node for
  gallery because it is more extensible, ordering, favoriting, etc
<darthsteven_> Crell: both
<skilip> For uploading: Using SWF upload, users can select multiple files. An other way is (seen it
  somewhere) to upload a zip file, which is extraxted on the serevr
<Crell> Then how do we implement both with as little code duplication as possible?
<aufumy> ui has to be there, I think. server maybe optional
<Crell> What's swfupload, and what's its license?
<stevek> agreed aufumy
<skilip> Freeware, since I'm currently workin on it
<skilip> Or better: GPLv2
<hubertflorin> agreed, and zip files could be supported but not default, bad UI
<skilip> true
<darthsteven_> swfupload => MIT license
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* walkah looks 'round
<stevek> heya
<aufumy> hi
<walkah> what's shakin' good people?
<aufumy> we are trying to come up with good ideas and solutions, just trying to figure stuff out
* Crell shakes his booty.
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<Crell> skilip: You're the developer, or a developer?
<aufumy> so far imagefield/imagecache being supported
<aufumy> discussiong multi-upload swfupload looks promising
<stevek> architecture for multi-uploading of images.. and UI
<aufumy> and gallery as taxonomy / node not yet decided
<Crell> Short version: imagefield for storage, taxonomy for organization, views/nodequeue for listing.
<skilip> A developer. I need a friend for the AS3 part
<Crell> gallery-as-node maybe.
<hubertflorin> views for listing, not sure..
<Crell> skilip: Ideally we'd want something that can live in contrib entirely.  That means it would have
  to be GPLv2+ and not be a separate bridged project.
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<Crell> hubertflorin: Doing listings with something other than Views at this point is wasted energy.
<skilip> I'm planning to create an upload module using flash. It should be something like an upload . If
  you select a (or some) file(s), the button disappears and a progresbar comes in place
<skilip> That's my plan: a module for drupal
* walkah thinks dopry and drewish should be here
<hubertflorin> Oh yes, sorry, misundertanding :)
* Crell hadn't expected to end up in a BoF. >:-)
<Michelle> walkah - Yeah, I said as much when I joined
<walkah> Michelle: *nod* yeah
<aufumy> yes, walkah I explained that I could have organized this better, apologies
<skilip> But if you mass-upload files, you need to be able to browse for them
<aufumy> but did not want to sound stupid basically
<aufumy> so wanted to get discussion going, start something, then approach more and more people
<aufumy> or rather consult with the giants as we have something to present
<Michelle> aufumy - But the people who are big into images already have covered the ground that would
  get covered so might as well build from that
<aufumy> Michelle true, I am a little shy sometimes
<quicksketch> skilip: you should use http://swfupload.org/project/drupal
<quicksketch> it's very nice
<hubertflorin> that's what we are thinkin of using for the gallery module
<walkah> hubertflorin: which gallery module?
<quicksketch> ironically, swfupload is the uploader for wordpress, despite being written for drupal
<stevek> "gallery" module
<stevek> arbitrary name
<walkah> *nod*
<stevek> :p
<skilip> Thanks quickscetch
<walkah> aufumy: thanks for putting together this space - it's long overdue - just wanna make sure the
  people actually doing the related work are present and participating :)
<Crell> Remember that if we check any Flash into CVS, it MUST include the original fla and as source
  files.
<aufumy> walkah, basically it is because of hubertflorin, he sits next to me, and has been extremely
  persistet
<walkah> aufumy: er. oh, you're @ RCS?
* walkah has no idea who aufumy is
<aufumy> yes, not another one eh?
<walkah> you people are multiplying!
<aufumy> Audrey Foo
<hubertflorin> yeah, I'm a bit of a pain sometimes... sorry :)
<walkah> oh. audrey. hey there!
<aufumy> hi
<darthsteven_> has anyone used swfupload? What's it like?
<aufumy> :)
<skilip> I'm just testin it
<stevek> theres a demo on the site
<stevek> http://swfupload.org/documentation/demonstration
* darthsteven_ just saw that :-(
<skilip> Looks nice! I'm only missing a progressbar
<stevek> sorry, http://demo.swfupload.org/
<darthsteven_> http://demo.swfupload.org/applicationdemo/index.php is seriously hot
<quicksketch> yeah, you can even select an entire *directory* or multiple files at once
<Crell> Um, it doesn't work for me because it wants to open a popup on page load.
<quicksketch> it'll upload them all simultaneously
<Crell> No, wait, it's plugins.
<skilip> And again: if we choose for multiple file uploads, do we have to be able to browse the files on
  the server?
<quicksketch> Crell: it's flash based
* stevek sees a progress bar
<skilip> stevek: what demo?
<Crell> I already have flash installed, dagnabbit.
<stevek> http://demo.swfupload.org/applicationdemo/index.php
<stevek> try multiple files
<quicksketch> sorry Crell, i realized how dumb that was after i said it :P
<skilip> No progressbar for me (Firefox Mac)
<stevek> odd, maybe your connections too fast ;)
<Crell> he
<Crell> heh
<skilip> But it looks very nice.
<hubertflorin> Yes, I have a progress bar only for large files...
<Crell> Oh crap, is the plugin installer going to force me to restart Firefox...
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<aufumy> stevek, did you mention that this degrades to html ?
<stevek> yes
<aufumy> I see a progressbar by the way
<aufumy> cool
<stevek> http://drupal.org/project/swfupload
<stevek> as per the description: It depends on the core upload module and degrades gracefully to a
  normal HTML upload form if Flash or JavaScript is unavailable.
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<hubertflorin> so can we make this work for the imagefield in nodes ?
<stevek> I'm assuming it wouldn't be that hard to refactor it for imagefield
<Crell> stevek: I see no files in CVS...
<Crell> Oh there they are.
<aufumy> yeah, so currently, swfupload adds files or 'images'?
<aufumy> I guess I can check
<skilip> It wouldn't be that hard to implement this
<hubertflorin> We would have to make some settings available for admin, like filetype, size etc...
<skilip> +1 for the swfupload
<Crell> Are we seriously considering making flash a requirement?
<stevek> it isnt
<aufumy> crell the swfupload drupal module degrades to core upload
<stevek> it degrades to either javascript or html
<darthsteven_> how well does it degrade?
<Crell> aufumy: But what about if we use it for imagefield or some other mass-upload mechanism?
<skilip> You should be able to choose for uploading 1 file a time-> JS, or multiple files ->flash
<Crell> upload.module makes a lousy place to store image gallery images.
<aufumy> Crell: not sure, but imagefield has to create a file anyway
<aufumy> Crell: I mean it adds a row to the files table as does the upload functionality
<aufumy> the diff is that imagefield adds a row to the content table / content field as well
<Crell> Yes.  My point is that "degrades to core upload.module" is not of any use if we're using
  imagefield, not upload. :-)
<aufumy> Crell: I have no idea, but it may be worth it to do some investigation
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<Crell> OK.
<stevek> maybe hook up with Rob
<neclimdul> i missed all the interesting stuff didn't i
<aufumy> :)
<aufumy> there is still a lot to discuss
<hubertflorin> yes, it's just the beginning :p
<neclimdul> awesome
<aufumy> there is still a lot to discuss Rob, and get his ideas
<skilip> Is it possible to create galleries without having to create a separate db table for it?
<aufumy> I meant to say, that one of us, or I can try to  ping Rob, etc
<stevek> galleries as nodes
<Crell> skilip: What do you mean separate db table?
<hubertflorin> oh btw, we are only working on Drupal 6 right ? because the imagefield / imagecache don't
  even exist for 6, same for swfupload
<skilip> I meant: how are we going to connect an imagelist to for example a node
<neclimdul> they are actually started for 6
<darthsteven_> they're waiting for views right?
<darthsteven_> besides we can always help bug fix :-D
<neclimdul> cck more likely
<darthsteven_> which is waiting for views?
<Crell> image* is already in heavy development.  dopry is working on it.
<Crell> CCK and Views2 are already reasonably stable.
<Crell> I'm using them now.
<Crell> Yes, we should target D6 only here.
<darthsteven_> agreed
<skilip> Agreed
<neclimdul> imagefield is probably the weakest but they seem to work
<hubertflorin> awesome, drupal 6 then
<aufumy> RobLoach will be joining us shortly
<darthsteven_> for those that have just joined: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ah8z4pjmvn39_82dx5hb9cw
<Crell> I will be departing for a bit.  Impromptu meeting.
<hubertflorin> Awesome
<Crell> I'll return.
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<hubertflorin> thanks for the doc
<RobLoach> Hello.
<aufumy> Hi RobLoach :)
<hubertflorin> Hi Rob, we are activelly talking about swfupload :)
<aufumy> "Just fixing the base API, and updating it to the latest version of SWFUpload."
<RobLoach> aufumy: I was using SWFUpload to upload individual images, which then were turned into nodes
  using ImageField.
<RobLoach> aufumy: It was very customized, and didn't really fit in contrib. Unfortunately I didn't have
  time to fix up the API and make it easier to use.
<darthsteven_> RobLoach: was the swfupload component itself flexible?
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<RobLoach> darthsteven_: By itself, SWFUpload is very flexible. The module itself isn't, and that's why
  I wanted to restructure it to make it more modular.
<aufumy> RobLoach it looks like a great little module
<aufumy> very promising
<darthsteven_> how about degrading?
<hubertflorin> We would need a multi-image uploader, that would creates nodes with an image field, and
  we might need to have some restriction or config available to admin, like filetype, size etc...
<RobLoach> aufumy: The module is horrible :-P .  The project is the "great little" thing ;-) .
<aufumy> yes ;)
<aufumy> but isn't that how greatness begins?
<darthsteven_> looks like we might have a winner
<aufumy> with having a good goal, then moving forward?
<aufumy> RobLoach, when would you have time to work on this module?
<aufumy> What kind of help do you need?
<aufumy> and how flexible do you think this module could be?
<RobLoach> Another thing that would've been nice would be a jquery.swfupload.js, which would wrap around
  the callbacks to make them work nicely with jQuery selectors.
<aufumy> stevek, katbailey any takers?
<stevek> ya i might have some time
<neclimdul> RobLoach: do you have those callbacks documented?
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* neclimdul wouldn't mind writting some jquery if he knows what to do
<Michelle> So what are the odds of this being done by August so I can drop G2 when I take my camera club
  site to 6.x? :)
<hubertflorin> I just punched stevek in the face, I will have ALL the time :D
<stevek> you will????!
<stevek> alright.. hubs doing the jquery :D
<RobLoach> aufumy: I think the best solution would be to have a base SWFUpload module which just
  provided the SWF, jquery.swfupload.js, etc.  It would also provide a hook_swfupload, which would be
  triggered when something happens (a user uploads a file, etc).  It would also have function
  theme_swfupload(), which would allow rendering of SWFUpload components.
<hubertflorin> he will.. not sure my jquery is that good...
<hubertflorin> ha ha
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<darthsteven_> I'm guessing we make the UI, the swf object is 'invisible'?
<RobLoach> aufumy: You'd then have sub-modules, that build upon it. swfupload_upload.module would
  replace the form that the upload module provides, swfupload_multi_imagefield_uploader.module would
  allow you to upload multiple images into nodes, etc.
<RobLoach> neclimdul: http://demo.swfupload.org/Documentation/
<darthsteven_> yes then.
<RobLoach> neclimdul: I didn't write that, that was Jake Roberts who maintains SWFUpload.
<RobLoach> Michelle: You really don't like Flickr :-P .
<neclimdul> hmm interesting
<Michelle> RobLoach - I neither like nor dislike it... I just don't use it. What brought that up?
<RobLoach> Michelle: "So what are the odds of this being done by August so I can drop G2 when I take my
  camera club site to 6.x? :)".
<Michelle> RobLoach - Er... And that has waht to do with filckr?
<skilip> Does the current SWFUpload module provide aministraors the ability to choose what filetypes are
  allowed?
<RobLoach> Michelle: If I were in your position, I'd just use a Yahoo Pipe to take the Flickr Set, and
  then output it via a PHP array....  But, of course, that seems like a hack job.
<hubertflorin> I think August is too soon to be expected, but who knows, we might be surprised
<RobLoach> skilip: In its current state, I think the module uses whatever the upload module says.
<RobLoach> skilip: SWFUpload has the ability to restrict that though, yes.
<Michelle> RobLoach - Um... You've completely lost me. I don't know what a "Flickr Set" is... Or a Yahoo
  Pipe for that matter
<hubertflorin> we need to develop the basic function, like the gallery nodes type and image node type,
  and implement the multi-upload in it
<hubertflorin> So we just keep it simple and usable for a start
<Michelle> hubertflorin - Yeah, I figured it probably would be. I'm just on the fence as to whether I
  want to continue with G2 or try some native Drupal solution when I rebuild the site
<skilip> Nice! We should create the drupal side as fexible as possible. Not only restrict to images
<darthsteven_> we can make this thing tie in really nicely, and it looks very powerful. should we move
  on?
<RobLoach> Michelle: A Flickr Set is like a gallery of images.  A Yahoo Pipe allows you to download and
  cache dynamic information from anywhere remotely.  So your website would use Yahoo Pipes to display
  the Flickr images dynamically.  I've been using it on http://robloach.net/media
<aufumy> yes, swfuploa module looks good
<hubertflorin> We need to know who can work on the project
<aufumy> yes
<aufumy> RobLoach would you be willing to work with whoever is interested in contributing to swfupload
  module
<hubertflorin> I can do everything like theming and css :), work on UI or else, but nod code
<Michelle> RobLoach - Oh... And how is that a native Drupal solution? Sorry, still pretty lost.  I love
  G2. The only reason I'm thinking of dropping it is because I like to keep everything within Drupal
<aufumy> RobLoach: give an intro of the state of things, what issues to work on
<aufumy> I can work on code
<RobLoach> aufumy: Of course, if I see any patches, I'll commit them.  Anyone who wants CVS access can
  have it.  I don't have the finances to work on it personally though :-( .  It's a pretty big project.
<aufumy> RobLoach, getting a head start would be cool, to go through the code, and what needs to be done
<hubertflorin> I'm going to work on making Katbailey work on it :)
<hubertflorin> and stevek
<aufumy> haha!
<hubertflorin> and everyone in RCS
<aufumy> if we all have time
<hubertflorin> even the cleaning team if needed
* stevek hears a french cackle
<aufumy> and hub will massage us in the mean time?
<hubertflorin> well..\
<hubertflorin> upon good results
<hubertflorin> Anyone else whilling to help ?
<darthsteven_> yup
<skilip> I can design the ui
<darthsteven_> code wise
<hubertflorin> We should start a thread like on Views 2
<aufumy> or image ?
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<hubertflorin> skilip, did you see my first draft ?
<stevek> skilip, work with hub. he already has some wireframes done
<katbailey> hi all
<hubertflorin> hi kat
<katbailey> sorry, have only been half following all of this
<hubertflorin> good
<aufumy> Hi Kat
* katbailey waves at aufumy
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<darthsteven_> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ah8z4pjmvn39_82dx5hb9cw for a catch-up
<stevek> alright im heading off to pickup lunch.
<stevek> thanks darthsteven_ :)
<skilip> hubertflorin: guess not, sorry
<hubertflorin> skilip : http://www.raincitystudios.com/blogs-and-pods/hubert/outline-ui-design-ajax-imag
  e-gallery
<aufumy> so I guess the first action item is to see what needs to be done on swfupload module
<katbailey> nice one, darthsteven
<hubertflorin> or http://www.scribd.com/doc/3110492/Ajaximggallery
<RobLoach> aufumy: I'm making the project issue to summarize the "SWFUPload revamp".
<aufumy> excellent, thanks
<aufumy> :)
<darthsteven_> cool beans
<aufumy> then we can meet again next Monday same time?
<Michelle> I gotta head off. Will leave this channel open so I can read the backscroll
<aufumy> 11am PST that is?
<katbailey> Robloach: I'd like to help with the jQuery stuff
<hubertflorin> if it was just me, it would be every morning, but yes, I think next monday is ok
<aufumy> Kat is a jquery whiz
<skilip> hubertflorin: sweet!!
<aufumy> hear hub crack the whip
<alpritt> Do we know what the status is for improving image support in core?
<aufumy> alright, thank you all for excellent advice and contribution
<hubertflorin> I'll keep this chat open
<aufumy> will go to the swfupload revamp issue, and see what can be worked on
<aufumy> and meet you all next Monday June 23rd
<hubertflorin> Thanks every one !
<darthsteven_> Yeah, twas good
<RobLoach> http://drupal.org/node/271293