18:56George2maybe
allow users to rate content for themselves, ie. views can now spit out
content based on users votes (thanks to watching that lullabot video
last night ;)), so a view could be chucked together for showing their personalised content
18:57gusauspulling from the cloud
18:57dsabolbefore we do....we have our who, our what, we need our where (to kvantomme point) and then the how
18:57George2and from that, content could be suggested to them based on other users with similar votes (yay!)
18:57dsabolwhat about a similar content type of feature ala Amazon.com (people who read this book also liked)
18:58dsabolsorry George2 - I see we are on the same page
18:58George2dsabol - that's what i said
18:58gusausproject goals and outcomes - http://groups.drupal.org/node/15953
18:58kvantommeso nobody thoughts on storage? I guess we don't have the resources to host ourselves, but can I get a yes or no on that?
18:58George2kvantomme - re: storage, mhhh. before that can be answered, the question, exactly what ocntent will be stored needs to be answered
18:58George2kvantomme - if all videos are to be hosted, then that brings abotu copyright issues.
18:59kvantommeyes, and then you need to submit especially for that...
18:59George2kvantomme - why can't people host themselves, and the site just links to it
18:59dsaboldoesn't that lead to dead link issues?
19:00dsaboland doesn't that direct people away from the dojo
19:00George2kvantomme
- that way, the site is able to have a conversation based on the video,
and gets more traffic for the producer encouraging them to do more
stuff (hopefully)
19:00kvantommethat could work, I see 3 options: 1)all on project server 2)preferred services in the cloud 3)whatever caught in the wild
19:00dsaboldo we want to be a destination or do we want to be a directory - I think that needs to be answered.
19:01George2dsabol
- the dojo is the dojo. i don't know abotu that. however, the site is a
resource. if i go to a shop and they don't have something i want, if i
ask where i could get it and they send me to a competitor, i respect
that, and go back to the original shop for more
19:01kvantommeagain we do both strategies maybe?
19:01dsabolGeorge2 - let's pretend people are lazy
19:01dsabolI agree kvantomme
19:01George2ugh, cross-wired
19:01George2ok, THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ON THE DOJO2. i think that's become apparent.
19:02kvantommeDojo-moderated content on the dojo the wild stuff as a directory
19:02George2this is a discussion on a drupal learning hub
19:02George2if people are lazy, they have no reason to learn how to program / really use drupal then
19:03kvantommeok, so do we agree on the 2 pronged approach to storage?
19:03George2however,
yes, the content that is produced could be hosted on the site, however
that generates HUGE running costs. where is that money going to come
from?
19:03George2start small, think big, then become big
19:03dsabolGeorge2,
I humbly disagree with your statement about this not being about the
DOJO2. We need to determine our content strategy that is a fundamental
decision that needs to be made with regard to the form that the site
takes - Form follows Function.
19:04George2dsabol - i assume you mean the 'we' to be the dojo team? this is not a dojo team meeting.
19:04George2this is a group of like-minded people coming together who want a drupal learning hub.
19:04dsabolGeorge2, I also agree that we need to START. Right now this is pretty academic.
19:05gusausGeorge2: the learning hub is an element of the dojo site - it also can have many different uses
19:05kvantommehow many people is the dojo2 team now?
19:05
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19:05gusausdsabol: project manager
19:05gusausi'm on it
19:05gusauswe have a designer
19:06gusaus2 other specialists
19:06gusaushere's the thing - i really think this could be a valuable feature on the dojo site, g.d.o., wherever
19:06George2ok, anyway, back to agenda
19:07kvantommeyup
19:07George2re: integration with d.o. i don't think we can.
19:07George2d.o. is undergoing a huge reshuffle and redesign etc etc. we shouldn't concern ourselves with that
19:07kvantommeI see that more as a long term plan
19:08gusausagreed - if it's a component that worked, they may integrate in the future
19:08George2so trying to integrate with them is pointless
19:08George2kvantomme - sure yeah. but before it's built? no, can't be factored into it
19:08George2now the biggie
19:08
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19:08kvantommehmm, anybody following the semantic web conversations?
19:08George2multi-lingual content.
19:09George2kvantomme - it can wait until aob?
19:09kvantommeone way to tie this in could be by using d.o. for the taxonomy we use
19:10George2drupal
community is not just an english speaking community. so, it makes sense
for the site to use other than english. resources etc can be language
specific
19:10kvantommee.g. build an ontology based on the project pages
19:10dsabolGeorge2 good thought...definitely broadens the utility and appeal to a much bigger constituency
19:11kvantommemultilingual is also where there is the bigger need
19:11George2however,
that brings about one major problem: who the hell is going to moderate
content for that language, and how can people who are willing to do
that to be found?
19:11dsabolGeorge2 - ask?
19:11kvantommeah, then we get back to ... community voting ;)
19:11George2ie. a video could be published saying f*%$ s&$^ etc etc
19:12George2ask? 95% of the community will come with no voice
19:12kvantommereport inapropriate content button
19:12George2screw it, i think we should all become missionaries to teach everyone english
19:12George2even the americans :p
19:13kvantommehehe
19:13kvantommeif we build this system so that it can be plugged into national sites, I'm sure we can get help from national communities
19:13George2no thoughts?
19:14George2don't knwo if i'm liking the term 'plugged into'
19:14kvantommeRSS?
19:14George2they could be plugged into the site though. that, i like
19:15George2nah, rss aggregation for publishing is limited
19:15George2splogs etc
19:15kvantommeif we have a good tool, I'm sure they would be happy to put a link to the corresponding language version
19:16George2rss for resource collection re: for review - yeah i can see that
19:16George2hehe - YOURE A TOOL :p
19:16kvantommecan't help it, I'm a manager :D
19:17George2yeah, link love is essential, but still not asnwering the question, how to moderate the content
19:17kvantommeare we at the end of all the other questions?
19:17kvantommeoh, the multilingual content
19:18kvantommewell I see how we could build spam heaven
19:18George2yep
19:18George2that's the problem
19:18kvantommethen
what about the following: we build multilingual support, but we only
switch on a language once there is a group taking that responsibility
19:19kvantommeso you get a "language manager"
19:19George2a group taking responsibility? like al qheida?
19:19George2i cacn see that, but it means that the language loses out until someone is prepared to step up
19:19George2that would make me sad
19:20George2but, mayber it's the only practical way to go abotu it for now
19:20kvantommewhen somebody submits, we could ask them to take the responsibility...
19:20George2come on! i'm sure a spammer would take responsibility for their spam ;)
19:21kvantommeso you can tag content with a language, but it doesn't become public until there is an admin
19:21George2sure
19:22kvantommewe can always use mollom also...
19:22George2sure
19:22kvantommehmm we ended up with a dialogue...
19:23George2you're right
19:23kvantommeok, so this finishes this meeting?
19:23George2i didn't notice
19:24George2any other questions?
19:24kvantommeI'm done
19:24George2i'm spent too
19:25kvantommewhat's next?
19:25kvantommeWe join the dojo discussion and try to integrate both efforts?
19:25George2ok,
i think there should be another meeting re: site usage. we can look at
what type of person would come to the site, what they would get from
teh site etc. this site usage would then non-technically construct the
technical parts
19:26gusausi created a separate group from the dojo for a project like this
19:26George2gee thanks
19:26kvantommewhere's that group at?
19:26kvantommeurl?
19:27gusausi don't really care what it's called, but the fact is, there will be elements of this on teh dojo site
19:27kvantommeso let's try to integrate, don't wanna run both in parallel
19:27gusauswould make sense to collaborate - there is a team
19:27gusausalso looking to bring in funding
19:27
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19:27dsabolI agree there are far too many synergies that if we don't come together now we will end up duplicating efforts
19:28kvantommeagreed
19:28gusausi can go over the history of why the dojo slowed down, but i'm exhaused by it
19:28kvantommeTo long to much effort I guess
19:28gusausfact is there are 1800 people in the group, and a lot of 'em want to help and learn
19:29kvantommefrom a few people
19:29kvantommehave you thought about making it more conference like still?
19:29gusauswell.. too ambitious at the time
19:29kvantommee.g. once every month but a full day or so?
19:29dsabolI
can summarize it as a great cncept that started off with a bang and the
best intentions but over time lost it's focus and added too much
bureaucracy
19:30dsaboloh, adn too much work for too few
19:30kvantommeand of course you get burnt out...
19:30gusauskvantomme: dimdim has some quirks, but that will end up being a good platform for teaching and collaborating
19:30kvantommeit sounds cool
19:30dsabolkvantomme I would guess that the formal sessions (ala conferences) would be an important and dynamic element.
19:30gusausand that's open to ANYONE who wants to use it
19:31gusausso
the dojo really is about learning/mentoring - the site should capture
those materials and also other good drupal learning materials
19:31kvantommewhat
about doing shorter bursts - maybe even like conferences with a
conference team on the dojo? Where you put the people with a lot of
energy
19:32kvantommeand then fill in the gaps with dimdim add hock stuff
19:32gusauskvantomme: sure - it can be a wide of things - really anything that you see at a drupalcon or camp is fair game
19:32dsabolkvantomme you could do quarterly (or some fixed period) type events where you could form teams to be responsible for them.
19:32kvantommeyep that's what I'm thinking
19:33kvantommethat would be a lot more feasible for your organizers
19:33gusauskvantomme: dojo = drupal
19:34kvantommejup
19:34kvantommebut I guess you guys have been talking about this before right?
19:34
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19:34George2dsabol - question, how long have you been project manager for dojo2?
19:35dsabolI
think key to success will be envisioning as many ways as possible for
as many people as possible to get involved in the teaching/learning
process in a way that works for them.
19:35kvantommemakes sense
19:35gusausdsabol was referred by alex_ua
19:35dsabolGeorge2
- I started up in the fall of last year and then hit a bit of a speed
bump due to my mother passing away. I began anew at the start of the
new eyar.
19:36kvantommedsabol sorry to hear about your loss
19:36George2i'm sorry to hear that
19:36dsabolkvantomme George2 - thanks.
19:37George2ok, i have to get back to work
19:37gusausso we really just started pushing forward a solid plan and team going into the holidays - now getting things back on track
19:37dsabolI
think this is an exciting proposition and what's cool is that we can
make it as inclusive and exhaustive as we want it to be...but we need
to get some more great folks onboard with the idea and we need to get
moving
19:37kvantommedsabol what would be the best way for us to get worked in into your team?
19:38dsabolgusaus
and myself will reach out to you and get that worked out...but for the
purposes of our conversation consider yourself to be on the team.
19:38George2some more great folks? to do what?
19:38dsabolGeorge2 to help get to where we need to be, folks like you and kvantomme who get the idea and have plenty more good ideas and experience to offer.
19:38George2no i disagree
19:38kvantommek, do you have a formalized workflow already? E.g. a resource for writing the specs?
19:39dsabolGeorge2 in what way?
19:39George2in every way
19:39George2you KNOW what you've got to do. you can talk about it until the cows come home, and then some
19:39gusausdsabol is going to help comb thru this long spec - http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dg9292rd_250djpsggfx&hl=en
19:39dsabolplease elaborate in the time you have.
19:40dsabolGeorge2, of course but I'm not sure I see your point.
19:40George2ok, nm then
19:40gusausGeorge2:
again - the current project started up just before the holidays - it
failed before for a lot of reasons that we are very aware of
19:41George2ok
19:41dsabolGeorge2, we need a core cadre of folks who we can depend on to help bring this to fruition. This isn't MY dojo or gusaus dojo it's the communities dojo.
19:42kvantommeHave you thought about doing a code sprint?
19:42gusauskvantomme: yep - we're going to have a few of them
19:42kvantommeany time lines?
19:43dsabolwe have a tentative timeline established but will be flexing as we gain momentum and critical mass.
19:43
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19:43kvantommeI think you should just announce that you're going to do a virtual codesprint on day x
19:43kvantommeI can ask my colleagues to jump in
19:44kvantommethen we are already 8 or 10
19:44
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19:44gusausyeah - a the other benefit is the dev. process is great learning
19:45dsabolmany hands make the load light
19:45
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19:45kvantommemany hands make the load complex :/
19:45gusauseven if we're capturing/documenting the experience
19:45dsaboltrue that
19:46kvantommedo you guys have a ticketing system set up somewhere?
19:46kvantommeand a repository?
19:46gusauskvantomme: ya - let me give you the links
19:46gusausman, it's freezing here
19:47kvantommehere too
19:47dsabolnot bad where I am at which is weird for the time of year
19:47gusausit must be 60 degrees out
19:47kvantommeis there a mailinglist?
19:47gusaushttp://groups.drupal.org/open-learning-and-collaboration-portal
19:48gusausthat's the group i created
19:49kvantommecool, seems like you've been buzy :O
19:49dsabolkvantomme gusaus is the man
19:49gusausthere has been quite a foundation formed
19:49gusausand dsabol will help bring some clarity :(
19:49gusausheh
19:50gusauswrong one
19:50gusaus:D
19:50kvantommeah, the cut it up and package it fase
19:50
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19:50kvantommethat's always the hardest
19:50gusaushere's the project - http://drupal.org/project/drupal_dojo
19:51dsabolkvantomme exactly! That's my charge...get this thing moving and hopefully done in a time and cost effective manner.
19:52gusausso dave is going to help comb thru everything, work thru the issue queue
19:53kvantommedo you have ideas for iterations?
19:53kvantommee.g. version 2.01 beta
19:53dsabolkvantomme - very agile of you :-) we have some milestones and deliverables roughed out...nothing cast in stone quite yet.
19:54kvantommeis that something I could help with?
19:55dsabolI think that once we tighten up our project docs that would definitely be something that you could help out with...
19:55kvantommewhat is the timeline for that?
19:56gusauskvantomme: ya - it would be ideal to have you and George2 collaborate - we'll deliver a version of the site to the dojo, but that's really just one use case
19:56dsabolgusaus
and I are working through that this week...with any luck we should have
made significant progress by end of week and be much clearer about
exactly where we are and where we are going by when.
19:57kvantommehow do you collaborate? skype?
19:57dsabolskype, IM, email, etc.
19:57gusauskvantomme: #drupal-dojo in the irc
19:57kvantommek
19:57gusausi've been turning some of the planning session into dojo sessions
19:58gusausso
the ideal will to follow a format similar to the drupal.org redesign -
it's open, but they have a team responsible for getting the work done
19:59
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19:59gusauskvantomme: what's your specialty and/or interest?
20:00kvantommeI'm a bioengineer, with a Drupal shop specialized in life science websites
20:01kvantommeI was initiator and co-lead with Gabor for Drupalcon Szeged
20:01kvantommeback then we put together a team for taping Dcon Szeged
20:01gusausthat's great
20:02kvantommeWith the same team I want to cover more events in Europe, that's why I'm interested also in the place where this will live
20:02gusausthe goal is to create something in which each major component can be easily plugged into any drupal site
20:03kvantommeI've
got an application in at the Drupal Association on this topic, they
asked me there if I wouldn't want to be a bit more global, that's how I
got here ;)
20:03dsabolkvantomme sounds pretty logical to me.
20:04gusausso a learning repository and the knowledge on how to set one up will have a lot of value - not just for drupal learning
20:05kvantommewe've
been doing some internal research on the topic in our company, we're
building our own collaboration site right now - that's how we got into
the collect info while you research idea
20:06kvantommeso that when 1 colleague finds his way to the answer on an issue, it also gets shared
20:06gusausyup - being able to find 'good' resources is very important
20:08kvantommewell
it's more the being able to refind resources, you can solve most issues
with google, but you have to sift through a bunch of text for that. The
system we built allows you to submit text snippets that solved your
problem
20:08kvantommeso when you or somebody else bumps into the same problem again, they can just follow the snippet trail
20:08kvantommeit's a bit like Google notes but integrated in your drupal site
20:09
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20:10dsabolsounds like it has a lot of utility...
20:10dsabolalmost wiki-like
20:11kvantommeyes, community built. And when you submit a new issue it shows you similar issues and their answers...
20:11gusausso dsabol is going add some clarity to the various outlines and we want to come out w/ something similar to a kdi proposal - http://groups.drupal.org/node/add/proposal?gids[]=9328
20:11kvantommebut that's enough about my baby =D
20:13kvantommeok, got to go, please keep me in the loop...
20:13gusauskvantomme: thanks
20:13kvantommethank you í;)